[detaildoc]

I've been reading a lot in other forums about problems with 106ff, especially on soft paint. The posts below are from members in another forum in response to my question regarding filling abilities of 106ff and it pretty much sums up the other issues. Please read and tell me if you have found this to be the case wit 106ff (especially on soft paint) or if you completely disagree. I will be doing a Nissan Ultima in 2 weeks and I plan to hit it with 106ff and a white pad (maybe orange), but now I am not sure.

"I think the final agreed-to consensus was that PO106FF unintentionally hides defects, due to the oils used as lubes in the polish. Menzerna blatantly denies PO106FF as having *any* filling properties"

"No, I do not believe 106ff has fillers, at all (traditional fillers such as clay or heavy oil).

From my conversations with various manufacturers, here is what I have come up with. (Again much of this is based on conversations with various people, but the conclusions are my own.)

106ff (as well as many of their other products) are "Production" polishes. They are developed for specific conditions on in an assembly factory. Many companies make production polishes, but because these products are so focused, they are rarely sold outside the production line (and their cost is very prohibitive). They can have problems when used in dynamic environments, such as what most detailers have, and when not used on paint similar to what they where designed to be used on.
So by "us" using 106ff on anything less then fresh, Mercedes Benz paint, with the approved pad and polish, in the right temperature and humidity, we are using 106ff outside its environment and thus using it incorrectly. However, as many have noted, 106ff and SIP (when they work) can produce stunning result. When they don't work you can get pad hop, pad skip, grabbing, etc...

I have also heard that 106ff uses a wax type lubricant in 106ff, designed to lengthen the work time (to cut the cerma-clear). I am not 100% sure if this is true or not.

When the paint is polished (via rotary) the foam of the pad contacts and rubs against the paint. Depending on the paint hardness, lubrication, and mechanical action of the foam, the pad itself can leave amazing small abrasions into the paint. On softer paints, these abrasions would obviously be bigger.

I believe that the carrier (or lubrication oils) of 106ff can leech into these incredibly small abrasions and be very stubborn to remove. This would explain why most people whom I have spoken with regarding this "masking issue" have noticed it on cars that typically have softer paint. Also, this explains why the problem seems to happen most with people who are using a polishing pad to finish the paint.

If you really want to finish the paint, you have to use a pad with little to know no mechanical action, and use a polish with an abrasive that breaks down at a slower rate (to insure that it "cleans itself up").

I recommend that you wipe the paint with a solvent (though this could be more dangerous) though I know Ryan swears by using a high percentage alcohol wipe down (91% un-diluted). The alcohol is probably a safer alternative, but it needs to be strong.
I think this should be down on every car before applying a wax or sealant (unless it is part of a system such as following Meguiars #80 with #26, since the oils in #80 and #7 are the same).

Even then, I had noticed longer durability from Meguiars #21 after wiping the paint down with a solvent after polishing with #80. On top of #80, Meguiars #21 would give me about 2 months. With the wipe down, I was able to get about 3 months. Also, many people have noted issues with sealants have very short life cycles when used on top of 106ff…."

[D&D Auto Detailing]

I would agree and have said it over and over, but only gotten shit for it. Experiment with it yourself and you'll see.

[Mindflux]

What are we agreeing on? A Prep-Sol wipe down before your LSP aids longevity?

Isn't this a 'duh' thing?

	LSP Last Step Product, meaning protection either wax or sealant.

[D&D Auto Detailing]

Umm no, did you read the post at all?

[Mindflux]

Originally Posted by D&D Auto Detailing

Umm no, did you read the post at all?

Yep. Sure did. I see "106ff" fills minor abrasions... and then I see that an IPA/Prep-sol wipedown aids LSP longevity.

I also see a bunch of hearsay about how Menzerna polishes only work at X degrees and at X% RH. Not that I have anything to refute it otherwise with.. but none the less.

Was trying to figure out which one you were agreeing with. I chose the one I agreed with.



*Edited for further explanation.

	LSP Last Step Product, meaning protection either wax or sealant.

[D&D Auto Detailing]

Didnt think someone would read a huge post like that all about 106, then focus on a few sentences about how wipe downs aid in longevity. Just seemed to me like you missed the entire purpose of the thread.

Basically what it comes down to is 106 will hide imperfections when used incorrectly. As far as wipe downs, I believe they leave a better bonding surface for your LSP.

	LSP Last Step Product, meaning protection either wax or sealant.

[detaildoc]

JC man! And I just posted this thread: Why I like DB. If I wanted to read this kind of bickering I can do that at Autopia. Let's keep it friendly, helpful, and professional here.

[mixxer]

Any polish that is used incorrectly will hide defects ,that why i use a paint cleaner or IPA wipe down ALWAYS!

[Mindflux]

Originally Posted by detaildoc

JC man! And I just posted this thread: Why I like DB. If I wanted to read this kind of bickering I can do that at Autopia. Let's keep it friendly, helpful, and professional here.

I think we're quite a bit away from Autopia. How I miss the 2001/2002 era over there.

[Nica]

Originally Posted by mixxer

Any polish that is used incorrectly will hide defects ,that why i use a paint cleaner or IPA wipe down ALWAYS!

I would have to agree with your statement mixxer, well said.