[Nica]

Originally Posted by blk45

If I recall correctly

Oh okay, thank you for that

[blk45]

No problem Nica.

[togwt]

I wanted to add this info for anyone who does a future 'search' on this product-

Warning
Before using any chemicals or solvents, carefully read all of the cautions and medical information on the products container and / or MSDS. There is a very fine line between effective cleaning and dangerous to use products; always follow all of the manufacturer’s recommendations. Ensure that you wear eye protection and acid-proof gloves; this is mandatory. No matter how safe an acidic product is advertised, never run the risk of it splashing in your eye or it permeating your skin.

Use a product that has a low acid concentration level (i.e. Sulfuric, Phosphoric and Nitric acid. 10%, or less) with as high a pH level (> 2.0) as you can find, this constitute a less aggressive product. Oxalic acid is relatively safer and yet still very effective to use on most wheels. A wheel cleaner containing Oxalic acid is far safer yet still very effective to use on most wheels. It will do a far better job than high alkaline cleaners, yet is nowhere near as harmful to the vehicle or yourself

a) Acid is highly corrosive; the skull and crossbones warning on an acid label is there for a reason; acids will etch or erode anything in its path, they are also very effective in dissolving metals and etching glass. Acid will keep reacting with any surface it’s applied to if it isn't neutralized by an alkaline product
(Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner - Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner

b) Even a pH 5.0 acid with a dilution rate of 4:1 (as recommended by Meguiar's for their Wheel Brightener (Ammonium hydrogen fluoride [NH4] [HF2]) results in a pH 4.5 solution. The dilution of an acid doesn’t make it safer as the addition of a molecule of water to a chemical compound, without forming any other products is known as hydration reaction (increasing the acidity of the solution) dilution causes the pH to decrease But since pH is not a very good indicator of the strength of the acid in every system, this approach won't always produce the desired results.

[richy]

Originally Posted by togwt

I wanted to add this info for anyone who does a future 'search' on this product-

Warning
Before using any chemicals or solvents, carefully read all of the cautions and medical information on the products container and / or MSDS. There is a very fine line between effective cleaning and dangerous to use products; always follow all of the manufacturer’s recommendations. Ensure that you wear eye protection and acid-proof gloves; this is mandatory. No matter how safe an acidic product is advertised, never run the risk of it splashing in your eye or it permeating your skin.

Use a product that has a low acid concentration level (i.e. Sulfuric, Phosphoric and Nitric acid. 10%, or less) with as high a pH level (> 2.0) as you can find, this constitute a less aggressive product. Oxalic acid is relatively safer and yet still very effective to use on most wheels. A wheel cleaner containing Oxalic acid is far safer yet still very effective to use on most wheels. It will do a far better job than high alkaline cleaners, yet is nowhere near as harmful to the vehicle or yourself

a) Acid is highly corrosive; the skull and crossbones warning on an acid label is there for a reason; acids will etch or erode anything in its path, they are also very effective in dissolving metals and etching glass. Acid will keep reacting with any surface it’s applied to if it isn't neutralized by an alkaline product
(Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner - Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner

b) Even a pH 5.0 acid with a dilution rate of 4:1 (as recommended by Meguiar's for their Wheel Brightener (Ammonium hydrogen fluoride [NH4] [HF2]) results in a pH 4.5 solution. The dilution of an acid doesn’t make it safer as the addition of a molecule of water to a chemical compound, without forming any other products is known as hydration reaction (increasing the acidity of the solution) dilution causes the pH to decrease But since pH is not a very good indicator of the strength of the acid in every system, this approach won't always produce the desired results.

Jon..do you have examples of cleaners that use Oxalic acid? I am looking at this product Megs b/c the surf city and others are, on occasion, not strong enough.

[Usjdmtuner]

Originally Posted by togwt

I wanted to add this info for anyone who does a future 'search' on this product-

Warning
Before using any chemicals or solvents, carefully read all of the cautions and medical information on the products container and / or MSDS. There is a very fine line between effective cleaning and dangerous to use products; always follow all of the manufacturer’s recommendations. Ensure that you wear eye protection and acid-proof gloves; this is mandatory. No matter how safe an acidic product is advertised, never run the risk of it splashing in your eye or it permeating your skin.

Use a product that has a low acid concentration level (i.e. Sulfuric, Phosphoric and Nitric acid. 10%, or less) with as high a pH level (> 2.0) as you can find, this constitute a less aggressive product. Oxalic acid is relatively safer and yet still very effective to use on most wheels. A wheel cleaner containing Oxalic acid is far safer yet still very effective to use on most wheels. It will do a far better job than high alkaline cleaners, yet is nowhere near as harmful to the vehicle or yourself

a) Acid is highly corrosive; the skull and crossbones warning on an acid label is there for a reason; acids will etch or erode anything in its path, they are also very effective in dissolving metals and etching glass. Acid will keep reacting with any surface it’s applied to if it isn't neutralized by an alkaline product
(Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner - Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity Cleaner

b) Even a pH 5.0 acid with a dilution rate of 4:1 (as recommended by Meguiar's for their Wheel Brightener (Ammonium hydrogen fluoride [NH4] [HF2]) results in a pH 4.5 solution. The dilution of an acid doesn’t make it safer as the addition of a molecule of water to a chemical compound, without forming any other products is known as hydration reaction (increasing the acidity of the solution) dilution causes the pH to decrease But since pH is not a very good indicator of the strength of the acid in every system, this approach won't always produce the desired results.

nice.... i actually took a test on the ph level of one of the citrus degreaser i bought and it was very alkaline.. whats your conclusion on this? i assume this will hurt the paint...whats a safe citrus degreaser paint friendly?

[togwt]

Originally Posted by richy

Jon..do you have examples of cleaners that use Oxalic acid? I am looking at this product Megs b/c the surf city and others are, on occasion, not strong enough.

This acid (Oxicolic) still needs to be handled with care and diluted correctly, but it’s safer than Hydrofluoric acid yet a very effective alternative.

d) Car Brite - Mag-Aluminum is a clear, heavy-duty acid-based cleaner and brightener formulated for use on chrome-plated, magnesium, or aluminum wheels.

e) Alloy Bright is an acidic cleaner specifically formulated to clean aluminum alloy wheels, components and fabrications. Alloy Bright will effectively remove dirt, atmospheric tarnish and oxidation. Car Brite -http://www.carbrite.com UK - UK Valet Supplies - Professional car valet supplies - Car Brite - Farecla

[togwt]

Originally Posted by Usjdmtuner

nice.... i actually took a test on the ph level of one of the citrus degreaser i bought and it was very alkaline.. whats your conclusion on this? i assume this will hurt the paint...whats a safe citrus degreaser paint friendly?

Sonds like you were sold a 'lemon'

No I've never heard of a citrus being alkaline, but...

P21S Total Auto Wash is my go-to citrus-based gen purpose cleaner - Organic acids
Citric acid, found in citrus fruits has a pH of 2.0
Oxalic acid, has a pH of 1.8
Vinegar has a pH of 2.0

[Usjdmtuner]

Originally Posted by togwt

Sonds like you were sold a 'lemon'

No I've never heard of a citrus being alkaline, but...

P21S Total Auto Wash is my go-to citrus-based gen purpose cleaner - Organic acids
Citric acid, found in citrus fruits has a pH of 2.0
Oxalic acid, has a pH of 1.8
Vinegar has a pH of 2.0

thanks...would P21s total AW work as a bug/tar remover also?

[togwt]

Originally Posted by Usjdmtuner

thanks...would P21s total AW work as a bug/tar remover also?

Yes, but I'd dilute it as the d-limonene (citrus) will remove wax and or polymer protection

[Usjdmtuner]

Originally Posted by togwt

Yes, but I'd dilute it as the d-limonene (citrus) will remove wax and or polymer protection

ive look into other cleaners and most of them are high in base ph of 10 and up... like for example: Malco... Malco (The Choice of the Pros!) - Cleaning & Detail Products